Mr. Azzam:
There is a fourth scenario that you have apparently not even considered.

Why can’t the Palestinian people unite under the banner of national unity without the declared objective of destroying its neighbor, without either Fatah or Hamas?

If the Palestinian people really do wish to live in peaceful coexistence with Israel, this may be the only realistic option.

To date, neither of these groups has acted to the benefit of the average Palestinian, but only to further their own agendas and line their pockets with money meant for other purposes than enriching their bank accounts. Don’t you think that perhaps an independent Palestinian government not linked to either group is an option?

It may very well be the only scenario that can work. No country can accept the establishment of a neighbor dedicated solely to its destruction, and no UN resolution can compel any country to agree to such an arrangement.

If Hamas and the PLO are popular, then I really have to wonder at the awareness and realism of the Palestinians as a group. Even though billions of dollars and Euros are given to the Palestinian organizations yearly, none of it seems to benefit anyone but Hamas and the PLO. How can thieves be so popular?

The question is not “if we want peace”, Mr. Azzam—the question should be: “are the Palestinians interested in living peacefully alongside of Israel and not instead of Israel?” As long as the answer is “no”, there can be no peace—it only takes one side to create a war, but it takes two willing partners to make peace. Where is the demonstration of the Palestinian desire for peace? None is in evidence.

Since you want to quote dead politicians, what about Yasser Arafat’s being quoted at least 4 times in the Arab press, responding to critics of the Oslo Accord by telling them that “it’s all part of the Phased Plan” (for the destruction of Israel).

Regarding your demands, please read my response to your article “A world without Gaza”. Your grasp of the meanings of decisions under international law is flawed, to say the least.

Last of all, Israel has never had a policy of “destroying Palestine” or Palestinians, but the PLO Charter and the Hamas Covenant specifically define the destruction of Israel as their reason for existence. Israel has never written such a document regarding Palestinians. If you wish to blame someone, blame your own leaders for lying to you, lying to Israel and lying to the world.

I have to admit that this is an interesting, if somewhat distorted “take” on history.

The movement to re-create the state of Israel started long before the Balfour Declaration, and specified that the indigenous population was not to be expelled or discriminated against. The Balfour declaration itself states this: “… it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.” It was the Arabs who refused, not the Jews. As early as 1900, Arabs were stealing Jewish property and murdering Jewish settlers who bought land and brought farm animals and equipment.

What “occupation” were the riots of 1921, 1929 and 1936 “resisting”? The British were the “occupiers”, yet Jews were massacred by Arabs in Hebron, Tiberias, Jaffa, Gaza (yes, Gaza, where there had been a Jewish community for more than 2,000 years) and Jerusalem (which had a Jewish majority since the 1850s).

I would hardly describe a war in which the Arab armies advanced almost as far as Ashkelon, took the West Bank (Jordan) and the Gaza Strip (Egypt) and in which more than 6,000 Israelis and many more Arabs were killed as a “fake war”.

Palestine was never an independent state. Prove to me that there was a Palestine with a government, a capital city, an economy with its own currency and a head of state. You can not because there was not. What you “guess” holds no credibility whatsoever, but historical records do. There has never been a state called “Palestine”. The Roman Empire changed the name of the area from Judea to “Palestine” as a punishment for the Jewish rebellions of the first and second centuries CE and it was ruled by invading empires (Roman, Byzantine, Islamic, Crusader, Ottoman, British) until 1948.

You mention UN Resolutions very freely, but have YOU read them (and understood them)?

UNGA Resolution 194:

This is the clause relevant to your argument:

11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation, and to maintain close relations with the Director of the United Nations Relief for Palestine Refugees and, through him, with the appropriate organs and agencies of the United Nations;

The operative words here are: “wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours”. Are you willing to live at peace with Israel? (By the way, this is a General Assembly Resolution, which, according to the UN Charter, is non-binding—that means neither side is obligated to accept it. Since Clause 6, regarding the resolution of outstanding issues between the governments was rejected by the Arab governments, this issue is a dead one.)

UNSC Resolution 242
1. Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:
(i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

2. Affirms further the necessity
(a) For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;
(b) For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;
(c) For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every State in the area, through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones;

Clause 1(i) is dependent on Clause 1(ii), in other words recognition of Israel and its territorial boundaries. Other than Egypt and Jordan, no Arab country has complied with this resolution and the Khartoum Accord of September 1967 declaring “No peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel” was a blunt ARAB refusal to accept Resolution 242.

Clause 2(a) has been interpreted as including the 900,000 Jewish refugees expelled by Arab states, and their descendants, as well as Palestinian Arabs.

Clause 2(c) has yet to be understood by Palestinians. Every terrorist attack, every suicide bomber, every Qassam fired at Israeli territory is a violation of this clause. You can not violate this resolution while demanding that your enemy respect it.

UNSC Resolution 338:

1. Calls upon all parties to the present fighting to cease all firing and terminate all military activity immediately, no later than 12 hours after the moment of the adoption of this decision, in the positions they now occupy;

(This clause was fulfilled).

2. Calls upon the parties concerned to start immediately after the cease-fire the implementation of Security Council Resolution 242 (1967) in all of its parts;

(Once again, Arab countries refused to negotiate with Israel—it was not until 1977, four years later, that Anwar e-Sa’adat offerred to come to Jerusalem. Syria is only now entering an indirect negotiations stage.)

3. Decides that, immediately and concurrently with the cease-fire, negotiations shall start between the parties concerned under appropriate auspices aimed at establishing a just and durable peace in the Middle East.

(This never happened, due to the Arab refusal to participate in negotiations. A peace agreement was signed with Egypt in 1979. No such agreement has been signed yet between Israel and Syria.)

Security Council resolutions are supposed to be binding, but we can see that Arab governments have consistently rejected the requirements of UNSC Resolutions 242 and 338 upon them, making any claims of Israel’s compliance or non-compliance irrelevant.

Palestinian policies are what make a Palestinian state impossible. Do you suppose that Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades and any other “resistance militia” that feels like it can shoot rockets and send suicide bombers into Israel, killing civilians and destroying Israeli property with no response? Try importing medical equipment and construction materials instead of arms and explosives.

You claim that “Israel stole your grandfather’s land”. I have several questions:

1) I own my own home. I have an official piece of paper called a “title deed”, issued by the land authority, stating that the house is mine, and the Land Authority registered the property in my name. Did your grandfather have such a piece of paper? Is his name listed in the plat books as the owner of record of the property? Does he have a bill of sale from an owner of record that can be verified and/or validated? In other words, can you prove your claim of ownership in court under the rules of evidence?
2) Did your grandfather leave his home because he was expelled by Israeli soldiers, or did he leave voluntarily because he was order to by the Higher Arab Committee, believing their promise that he could return in a couple of months?
3) Where exactly is this property?

I ask these questions because there are many fraudulent and multiple claims on property among Palestinians (in one case, seven different family members made claims for the same piece of property, and it turned out that none of then had a claim acceptable in court, since the family had rented the property from its legal owner).

“I’ve been a refugee for more 30 years and you live in the place which I should live in. your state took away my lands and my grandfathers lands. So before talking about peace, give back what your state took illegally from us then talk about peace.”

So you say, but I ask you this (for the second time): If the result of the War of Independence had been different, and the Arab armies had defeated the Jews, would you be offering any surviving Jews the land they had purchased legally from its registered owners or compensating them for the Arab conquest of the land? Somehow I doubt it.

Once again, check the UN Charter again. There is no rule against capturing enemy territory during a defensive war, only against benefitting from a war of aggression. The only aggressors have been Arab states. Egypt and Jordan relinquished their claims on the Gaza Strip and the West Bank under these rules when they signed their peace agreements with Israel. Now the burden of proof is on you, the Palestinians, to prove that you are willing to abandon aggression against Israel. Changing the PLO Charter and the Hamas Covenant would be a good first step. You have had 15 years since Oslo to change them, but have not done even that.

Are you willing to offer the same compensation you demand to the Jewish refugees expelled from Arab states, who were also victims of the same conflict? Again, somehow, I doubt it.

Get used to the idea that settling the conflict is not exclusively about what Palestinians want. I know of no other instance in history when the loser of a conflict expects to dictate terms as if they were the winner. It makes me wonder how anchored in reality the Palestinian demands really are.

“Do you know that Palestine never had a government? Because ti was always part of a state; Arab or Islamic state long time ago. Later on it had become part of Ottoman Empire like all of other Arab countries (for example Syria and Lebanon were the same and they are states now). Finally, the British came and colonized the whole Arab states. After they left, all other Arab countries, for example Iraq and Egypt, became states; only Palestine was not allowed to become a state because the British wanted to give it the Jews and yes they did. You mentioned that state thing, I asked you a question which didn’t answer, was there anything called Israel before 1948? Answer if you can. Now when it comes to history, you could get nothing prove that this land belong to the Jews. You can ask arcyalogists about that but of course not Israeli ones. However, hundreds of pieces Palestinian pieces were found and shown. Massacre history is the last thing you talk about as Israeli.”

I think you had better check on the dates certain countries were created, since you seem to be a bit confused. Here is a list of the Arab league countries and the dates of their establishment: Algeria (1962); Bahrein (1971); Comaros (1975); Djibouti (1977); Egypt (1922 as a British protectorate, 1953 as an independent state); Iraq (1932); Jordan (1946); Kuwait (1961); Lebanon (1941); Libya (1951); Mauritania (1960); Morocco (1956); Oman (1651); Qatar (1971); Saudi Arabia (1926/7); Somalia (1960); Sudan (1956); Syria (1946); Tunisia (1956); UAE (1971) and Yemen (1990) [Source: Wikipedia: individual articles for each country]. Note that most of the nations of the Arab League were established AFTER Israel, not before. In the period between 1945 and 1990 dozens of countries around the world were granted independence by colonial powers. A Palestinian state could have been established at the same time as Israel was, had the Arab states and the Palestinian Arabs wanted it. There was no need for a “Naqba” or for 60 years of war. You can thank the ARAB countries for the fact that the UN resolution for partition including a Palestinian Arab state was never realized.

Contrary to your opinion, no archeologists from any nation have been able to identify any uniquely Palestinian artifacts of any period for the simple fact that there never was any “uniquely Palestinian” culture. Opposed to that, there are identifiably Jewish artifacts on display in museums around the world showing an unbroken Jewish presence in the land for over 3,000 years, as well as verifying the existence of a Jewish state. Your statement is the exact opposite of the truth.

If there was a Palestinian culture, how do you explain these statements, made by Arab/Palestinian persona:

When the first congress of Muslim-Christian associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose “Palestinian” representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted: “We consider ‘Palestine’ as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic, and geographical bonds.”

In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Israel: “There is no such country [as Palestine]! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria.”

The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the general assembly in May 1947 that said “‘Palestine’ was part of the province of Syria” and that, “politically, the Arabs of Israel were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity.”

On May 31, 1956, Ahmed Shukairy had no hesitation, as current head of the Palestine Liberation Organization, in announcing to the Security Council the observation, ”It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria.”

Syrian President Hafez Assad once told PLO leader Yasser Arafat:
“You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian People, there is no Palestinian entity; there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people. Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people.”

Assad stated on March 8, 1974, ”Palestine is a principal part of Southern Syria, and we consider that it is our right and duty to insist that it be a liberated partner of our Arab homeland and of Syria.”

“There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.” Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head of the PLO and a member of its Executive Council, to the Dutch daily newspaper, “Trouw”, March 1977.

These are all documented quotes from Arab/Palestinian persona. Do you deny they were made?

“Have you ever read about the Hagana and what they did in Deir Yassen for example?”

Have you read the Bir Zeit University study done on Deir Yassin in the 1980s or seen the BBC investigative series made about Deir Yassin in 1998? Their conclusion is that after a pitched battle between Irgun/Lehi forces (not Hagana, as you claim) and fedayun, there were 112 dead Arabs, mostly fighters (and approximately 40 Jewish dead and wounded). Deir Yassin was one of the villages interdicting the Tel-Aviv/Jerusalem road, placing Jewish Jerusalem under siege. Surviving Arab participants have admitted to both the BBC and Bir Zeit investigators that the reports of massacre were manufactured by Hazem Nusseibeh, who was the editor of the Palestine Broadcasting Service’s Arabic news in 1948, who admitted to the BBC that he was instructed by Palestinian leader Hussein Khalidi to falsify the claims of atrocities at Deir Yassin with the intent to encourage Arab regimes to attack Israel. See: http://pnews.org/ArT/ZioN/DierYassin.shtml

“Regarding the evidences which I have to prove that my grandfather owned the property and the land in Isdood (you call it Ashdod now), yes I do have Ottoman and British documents that declare the ownership of the land, whereas your documents issued after 1948 and by Israeli government of course so mine is stronger than yours. the other thing is that my grandfather and his more than 5 grandfathers born and live in Palestine while yours immigrated from either Europe or USA or may be some other Arab states; who knows. how did my grandfather leave his land, of course he was kicked out by your army and forced to leave because of the 1948 war. Yes, he was promised to return back but he could never return and he is dead now.”

First of all, Ashdod is mentioned in the Bible, so “Isdood” is merely a translation from Hebrew to Arabic post-dating its establishment. I suppose you have an “alternative” name for Tel-Aviv, too.

If you have the documents, then you have a case to claim, unlike other Palestinians, who do not. The question was asked because of the number of fraudulent claims made in the past. Why don’t you make a claim through the court system? Did you know that more than 100,000 Palestinian Arabs have filed claims and received compensation from the Israeli government?

You insist your grandfather was “kicked out” by Israeli forces, but there is ample evidence that many Arabs left their homes in accordance with “orders” from the Arab Higher Committee, a fact well known to the Palestinian Authority. Read the article “Who caused the Arab ‘refugee’ problem? Refugee: ‘Arab leaders told us to flee Israel in 1948’” http://www.pmw.org.il/Bulletins_May2006.htm (it’s the first article after the report on cartoons).

Since you have no idea of my background or heritage, I am going to ignore your slurs. My family is apparently far more committed to this land, having fought (and some have died) in six different wars to defend it. There is a Jerusalem branch of my family that makes your grandfather a latecomer, since they have been living in Jerusalem since before the Muslim invasion in the seventh century.

“regarding your statement of defensive war, do you address the attacking of 3 Arab countries by your army and occupying their lands as defensive war, I doubt that of course.”

You may doubt what you wish. Egypt’s blockade of the Strait of Tiran was an act of war recognized by the UN as such. Syria and Jordan attacked Israel in response to Israel fighting Egypt. International law experts have long since determined that the 6-Day War was a defensive war on the part of Israel, so your doubts do not have much weight.

“Regarding the UN decisions, you picked what you liked.”

No, I picked the three UN resolutions that YOU mentioned.

“However, Israel never agrees on that. Even though we agreed on this at least during Oslo agreement but since that time, you didn’t stop building settlements (which are still not recognized even by UN, EU, and others) on the West Bank and Gaza lands. Your army is still addressed by UN and other NGOs as an occupation force in West bank and Gaza Strip. You’re asking us all the time to give away things and accept what you offer. Yes you have the power and we don’t have. You can kill whoever you want at anytime you want. You can put thousands of us in your jail for tens of year even if that someone is a kid (currently there are 6 thousands of them inside your jail). You always kill and kidnap people but then when you do that don’t expect the other side to say hi to you or give you some flowers.”

Regarding the three UN resolutions you mentioned, Israel never had a chance to accept or reject them, since the ARAB countries rejected them almost as soon as they were issued.

Personally, I have been against the settlements from the first day the first one was established, but the fact is that they exist. While you are complaining about Israel not complying with the Oslo Accord, how would you like to explain why the Palestinian Authority has not complied with a single condition they were required to fulfill?

I would like to hear you honestly say that if the situation were reversed (that is, that the Palestinians “had the power”), you would be willing to even discuss the possibility of any Jew, even one whose family’s residence in the land pre-dates the Islamic conquest 1400 years ago, remaining in “Palestine”. Wasn’t the Arab reaction to the Partition Plan to “drive the Jews into the sea” and “take the Jewish land, the Jewish gold and the Jewish women”? These claims were certainly made often enough.

I don’t “expect the other side to say hi” or give me flowers, it would be enough that the “other side” stop inciting hatred by brainwashing their children to hate Jews.

“You can even choose a butcher like Sharon (the Hero of Sabra & Shatilla massacre. By the way he was accused by Israeli court with that) to kill more and more of us but don’t ever expect peace.”

Although I have my own issues with Ariel Sharon, stemming from his behavior long before Sabra & Shatila, the only thing he was found “guilty” of regarding the massacres was of not foreseeing that the Phalangist Militias would take their revenge on the Palestinians for the Syrian assassination of Bashir Jemail, then president of Lebanon. It is a documented fact that no IDF soldiers took part in the massacres. On the contrary, it IS documented that the Phalangists massacred in Sabra and Shatila with knives so that the IDF forces nearby would not hear gunfire and stop them.

“When you kill my father and take my land, I will do my best to make you pay for that, if not me then my son will, if not him then his son will do. You have the power now, but it won’t remain for ever. One day we you will pay for what you’ve done and for sure we will make you pay for that.”

This is the saddest statement that you could make, since it shows that you have no desire or intention of peace with Israel, only peace without Israel. Others have tried to destroy the Jews, and they are lost in the dust of history, while we are still here.

With your words you condemn both sides to eternal warfare, to action and reaction without end, rather than saying, “Enough! Stop the killing!”

I have no knowledge of the circumstances of or reasons for your father’s death, but I do think that condemning yourself, your children and your grandchildren to a life of hatred and vengeance instead of moving on is, at the very least, a sign that you have made hatred a career. Most Jews do not blame today’s Germans for the crimes of the Nazis—how many generations of Israelis do you expect to hold responsible for the mistakes made by both sides 60 years ago?

There is a growing understanding in the Arab world that mistakes were made, even though their overt policies have not changed noticeably yet. Support for the Palestinian “cause” is waning in the Arab world. Ask yourself why 400,000 Palestinians were expelled from Kuwait after the first Gulf War. Ask yourself why thousands of Palestinians were expelled from Iraq after Saddam Hussein’s downfall. Ask yourself why Egypt refused to accept the return of the Gaza Strip when it signed its peace treaty with Israel. Ask yourself why Jordan abandoned all claims to the West Bank and Jerusalem when it signed its treaty with Israel. Ask yourself why the Palestinians in refugee camps in Lebanon and Syria may not leave their camps without a permit that is nearly impossible to obtain and can not study or follow professions in those countries. Ask yourself why the Arab states donate the least financial support of all the world’s nations.

Ask yourself WHY no one wants the Palestinians.

Mr. Azzam, if you wish to repeat propaganda rather than have a real debate, no one can stop you. Go in peace, sir– I hope you find the truth one day.

One last word about ”race”. There are only three ”races” in this world: Caucasian, Black and Oriental. Neither ”Arab” nor ”Jew” is a ”race”. Ask any anthropologist. Most Arabs and Jews are members of the Caucasian race, whether you like it or not.

People..
This is not some sort of football game you are playing. It’s not supposed to be who can gain the most yardage each time the ball is moved...

Both sides acting as police for their own people would be best. Both sides using less military against each other would be nice as well.

If you’re going to fight... You’d either better go for the Hail Mary and use nukes or just knock the crapp off!

Oh yeah.. and if someone draws a picture of Mohammud or some religious characture getting into a mess...
Deal with it peacefully!

If your religious leaders and icons are that pathetic that they cannot handle a joke.. You need to find a better faith to follow.
You sound like Obama Democrats!

“Both sides acting as police for their own people would be best. Both sides using less military against each other would be nice as well.”

Been there, done that—and it wasn’t a resounding success, if you remember. Neither the PA nor Hamas is willing to arrest Palestinians for attempting to strike at Israel. How many times has Mr. Abbas repeated that the PA police “can’t control the militants”? Ismael Haniyeh & Co. are only interested in arresting those Palestinians who interfere with their agenda.

“If you’re going to fight... You’d either better go for the Hail Mary and use nukes or just knock the crapp off!”

If the Palestinians had them, they’d probably use them, regardless of the damage they might do to themselves. Israel may have nukes (no one has ever really proved it conclusively, one way or the other), but if we do, they have not been used. You don’t shoot a fly with a cannon, especially when your own house is between the fly and the cannon, do you?

Fariha Jamil...

Faith and religion are two different things.

Religion when a Catholic spends his/her time counting their Rosary so they can keep their minds calm and respectful in times of stress.

Religion is when some nutcase sends him/herself to meet Allah for a pack of 77 virgins or whatever insane ideal they claim to be after...

Religion is when some Christian tythes 40% of their earning to pastor who drives a Mercedes while they are barely feeding their children.

Faith is when a man or owman knows that whatever happens tothem, it was the plan they were set up to be part of no matter if it’s an idea to develope a new engine (like myself) and wait around for the funds to build it while the world around them crumbles and everything kicks them in the gut as all hope fails them. OR Faith that the cancer they had two years ago will subside and they might be able to take on a job and visit their ailing mother beofre both of them die.

Faith is being able to realize that
it is what it is...

Azzam, my friend...
I see only some of what you can see.

My comments were meant for the agressive parts of the attacks and counter attacks.
Israel should not kill regular citizens of your country, but your country should not be hiring outside help to scare off people who are settling in open land, expecially after these people build the infrastructure.

The Palastinians did not have infrastructure or wells or anything until they were ”invaded” by the Israellis. That does not mean that your people can now come out and claim the land after it was made livable.

ANY MORE than the American indians can step forward and try to reclaim land that their ancestors LOST during a war between the invaders of their land.

Nomads (as the American Indians AND the Palestinians were) do not own land anyway, so both points are moot.